A civilian cannot tell the Police Chief how a department is run. I must side with the Chief and the Mayor knows I want us to eliminate our deficit badly. If the Police Chief thinks something is necessary for the public safety he is the qualified person to make the public safety decision. Safety trumps everything else and we should give the Chief the benefit of any doubts.

The village board and the chief need to work together on issues but the chief is right, how can he make appropriate budget cuts or run the dept with a noose hanging above his head its just not right! I believe our mayor and the board of trustees are keeping this village the tranquil one that it is and making it pedestrian safe but in the case of police consolidation they are out of touch with the village! I'm sure the responsible ones would agree that saving money is prudent specially in this environment but safety is priority number one. time to take cost measures elsewhere

I agree with both P Welch and Mr. Buescher. If Chief Williams is forced to cut Friday and Saturday night shifts, and a CoH resident calls for assistance, who will come? The town PD? It seems that by not taking a stand the village leaders ARE making a decision.

Ever since we moved into the Village back in the mid 80's, I have always been amazed by the proffesionalism and effiencey of our police and highway dept.
I believe that we should leave a good thing alone. Don't try to fix something that is not broken.
Can you imagine what will happen when the criminals find out that there is no official coverage in the Village of Cornwall On Hudson on certain nights?
Anyway I thought that only a study was being done. Why are we not running the dept as normal while the study is being done? Who ever told the chief that they were not hiring because they did not think he would be here should be fired.This is only a study and a study only.

I hope they resolve this issue soon. I was hoping to buy in the village next year but if there is only going to be part time policing maybe we will look in the town.

I don't understand the Mayor's desire to continue to find ways to reduce our services. No "mayhem" on weekend evenings? Is there "mayhem" the rest of the week? If coverage was to be based solely on the presence of "mayhem", we probably do not need any police. But don't we want police to prevent "mayhem"? The low crime rate is a testament to our police force.
The Village Board is moving in the direction of eviscerating the police department.

I have suggested for many years that the only form of police consolidation which could make sense in our community is if the Village police took over policing in the Town. The Village does not loose the incredible police service we have come to expect and the Town looses nothing either.
If there is truly any serious intent to improve the delivery of services, rather than further political agendas, analysis should focus on that approach.

Can the mayor cut police services on his own without a vote from the people of the village? That can't be legal! Denise P

How on earth could an elected official make such a moronic and potential catastrophic statement as "there is no meyhem on Friday or Saturday"? C'mon Joe get with the program. Let the resdients know the REAL reason you want to eliminate the Village Police Dept. is because the PBA's vocal support of former Mayor Moulton.
As a former member of the department, all I can say is "You will NOT find a more dedicated and professional group as the Cornwall on Hudson Police Dept." Chief Williams has been doing a fantastic job with the little support he gets for the Village Board. I know it is not the entire Board that's trying to eliminate a great department because of retaliation, just the few select that are considered Mayor Gross' cronies.

The last comment was a little rough. We all know that the Mayor wants to cut costs and he is looking everywhere and when he was campaigning he heard allot of negativity with the police dept as far as enforcements I was also hearing this through word of mouth that we were not getting the best bang for the buck. the dept does need improvement but I guess when the residents finally saw that a loss of a public service was coming to fruition residence started backing down I know of a few that did change course I guess they finally saw the light. I hope people realize that our Mayor does look out for what is best for our village one can never fault him for listening to the people he works for and obviously there was and possibly still is an interest in overhauling the police dpt but I would hope that the board and the chief can work together to make the village a safer and a retreat for quality of life .

John Buescher: I would hardly say that my comments were a little rough. We are talking about peoples lives and careers. Believe me if it was not a filtered site, I would be a lot rougher. As far as "word of mouth that you were not getting the best bang for your buck"?!?! What do you mean? Like I said, I worked for the department for many years, and if you can tell me or show me other than "word of mouth" the lack of enforcement or failure to provide services to the public, I will retract my statements. Until then, I will continue to believe what I know is factual.

The Village and Town Police Department have got to be the most responsible, community minded, courtesy officers I have ever encountered. We are very fortunate to have the officers protecting our community. Mayor Gross what are you thinking? To have no coverage in the Village on Friday & Saturday nights thats when we need our officers the most! Not that we have a high crime rate however, those are the nights that are open for people to do stupid things. Chief Williams has been doing a great job running his department, why are you tying his hands now! Let the Police Officers do their job!

There has to be other ways to save money. I feel that cutting back on our police department would be a terrible mistake. They play a vital part in making the village such a desirable place to live. It must be around 30 years ago that a long time mayor of the village tried to step in and run the police department. He was soundly beaten in the next election.I hope we are not going to see history repeated. The police department should be left for the professionals to run.

The mayor can talk about eliminating shifts all he wants, but the bottom line is that he would be violating the collective bargaining agreement between the village and PBA by doing so. The only shifts he could eliminate are ones filled by part time police officers which would not save the village enough money to make the risk of "mayhem" in an unprotected community worth it.

Frank Vido,

Our D.A.R.E. officer is part time and every parent would never want to lose her. The problem is money not the police. There are other avenues to help rid our deficit. Joe Gross wants to eliminate the deficit and is doing his best. We just can't eliminate patrols during slow crime periods. I remember working in the city when they tried this and can assure everyone it doesn't work and may put you in jeopardy. By all means make suggestions to the Police Chief but he should have final say over public safety. I remember when they tried to close my neighborhoods precinct down. Today its an "A" precinct(busiest). We don't want to become another Newburgh rife with crime. Do the study then get input from the public. Its not always about dollars and sense. Safety and Professionalism are what matters most.

In a time of increasingly heavy tax burdens, it's entirely appropriate to revisit "the fundamentals" of community services vs. costs and to reassess our needs and reduce redundancy wherever possible. Indeed, it would be irresponsible for our Village government not to.

If one looks at the criteria by which most local police departments are established, there actually is a better case for a local PD in the Town than in the Village. After all, every time business development in the Village comes up, we are reminded that there is far more commerce in the Town than the Village and that Villagers prefer it that way.

So why continue to pay for "upside-down" police coverage? Put another way, why continue to subsidize the Town by carrying the disproportionate cost of policing our "quiet" village?

The Village Board should really look at the big picture and ask why the Village even exists; why just pick on the police department. While doing so it would be best to leave the Town and the Town Police out of their thought process. It is obvious to everyone but the Village Board that the Town doesn't want anything to do with them. With all respect to the Village PD why would the Town or the Town PD want to? The Town PD is a NYS accredited police department that seems to be moving forward. The Village really doesn't have anything to bring to the table. If the departments were to consolidate you would being taking a small department and combining it with an even smaller one to make what would still be a small department. I would think the Town could police the Village without adding any manpower whatsoever. The coverage would certainly be different than what the Village residents have come to expect but as long as the Village is owner occupied it will never become another "Newburgh rife with crime" as others said

I understand that the day to day management of our little town is not an easy matter.All the many services that we sometimes take for granted run smoothly.In the decade or more that I've had the opportunity to watch Chief Williams and his department at work I can say that we are extremely fortunate to be blessed with the protection and professionalism we receive.The safety and the security we all enjoy does not come easily. We are just a few moments away from some of the worst drug infested streets in the Hudson Valley.Our little oasis isn't here by accident,it comes from a lot of hard work from a police dept.that is being used as a punching bag for different egos some larger than life!

We should consider any reluctance on the part of the Town to explore consolidation as strong evidence that it makes a lot of sense.

After all, Village residents are paying to separately police both the Town AND the Village, while the rest of the Town ISN'T paying to police that part of the Town which the Village occupies.

Sounds like a pretty good deal for the Town, not so good for the Village. Why would the Town want to change that? Duh.

OK, Jeff, maybe I didn't express it clearly enough for you.

Obviously, nobody is paying the Town for the policing which the Village PD is now doing. But is it your contention that Village residents get some discount on their Town taxes to account for the fact that the Village isn't patrolled by the Town? That's not my understanding.

My point is that, if there were no Village PD, the Town would cover the area and everybody in the Town would pay to do that, instead of just the residents of the Village. It's difficult to imagine how that could be more expensive for Village residents than the current setup; to the contrary, I think Village residents could expect it to cost measurably less.

OK, David, assuming what you say is borne out by the Village and Town budgets (and the absence of other significant V/T carve-outs), then the economics become the comparison between the two Town funds you reference and the cost of the Village PD.

I'll still be surprised if the savings in the Town come close to paying for the Village PD.

And I'll bet that's why the Town isn't answering the mail from the Village on this issue.

All this talk will come to nothing without a study. More importantly did I actually read correctly that the mayor wants to eliminate patrols on Friday and Saturday nights. If that is true I just have to say that is assine. I cannot believe anyone actually said that. Something is really wrong here if someone wants to eliminate police patrols on Fri. and Sat, nights. Please find ways to save money but not at the expense of the Villagers safety. Somethings really crack me up. This is getting downright ludicrous. I don't know Sean Kelly but I'm beginning to believe his posts are correct.

This is about fiscal responsibility, not the good faith of the Village PD, which isn't being questioned by anybody. It's just a distraction to keep hurling insults about that.

The only relevant question is whether the Village PD is worth its price tag, when compared with the cost of the Town patrolling the Village instead.

If the incident statistics support a force reduction, it's elementary that it's easier to do that within one consolidated dept than within two depts. That is, if there are two officers patrolling (one each for the Town and Village) on Fri and Sat evenings and both can no longer be justified by the incident stats, reducing to one patrol covering the entire area doesn't cause the lapse in Village coverage that seems to be causing the upset here.

So, Mr. Welch, you've actually just made one of the best arguments in support of consolidation.

Well Mr Chase I can certainly see how you can twist someones words to suit what one wants. I can also see that you have never been a policeofficer. On a traffic stop there is normally a backup at least heading in that direction for the officers safety. The village is quite small while the town is quite large. We would lose coverage on many occasions if we merged thats just the way it would play out. Traffic stop on 9w, COH backup, domestic dispute COH backup, bar fight COH backup, COH would be an extension of the town. Yes I know it would be visa versa but at this point we don't need them. Why don't you go further and ask why we don't have a county wide police force. It's done in many municipalities. I'll tell you why it wouldn't be good for the village. Be cause we are geographically at a disadvantage for coverage. I have made no arguement for consolidation. At one time I thought it would be a way to save money. But saving money at the expense of safety. Sorry no matter how you twist words I am against consolidation because it would leave us without coverage too often. Safety is my first priority. Not having any personal bias towards either the town administration or the village administration leaves me feeling I can make a sound unbiased opinion. About your assertion I hurled an insult. If someone wants to leave the village without police protection on a friday and saturday night it is assinine. Thats just a fact not an insult especially when the person making that decision has never been a police officer.

Mr. Welch, all the hot language doesn't change the fact that, if the Village PD had never existed, it wouldn't need to be created to provide backup for the Town Police.

And the notion that only those with "police experience" are entitled to opinions on this subject is not only absurd but flies in the face of our system of civilian control of both military and law enforcement.

Everybody is as interested in public safety as you are. But that doesn't mean that the Village PD -- or any other department -- should be immune from budgetary scrutiny, as you seem to suggest. If questions about coverage lead to larger questions -- even questions about a whether a department should continue to exist -- that demonstrates the healthy functioning of the government which supports the existence of those departments, paying heed to the heavily burdened taxpayers who they are sworn to represent.

And no amount of bluster should stop that orderly review process.

Jon,

"Hot Language"

Asinine is a bona fide adjective meaning foolish, unintelligent, or silly. That is an appropriate description of anyone wanting to leave the Village without Police protection on a friday or saturday night.

Just as one would go to an accountant for an accounting question or an engineer for an engineering question I feel safer leaving the question of police patrols to the professional who in this case is Chief Williams. From the beginning I was for a feasability STUDY on combining departments. I still think a study should be done. Then when its complete and we have full discussions on it, then it MAYBE should go to a public referendum. Until that is complete I think The Chief of Police should do what he knows is necessary for the civilian populations protection. Afterall that is what WE pay him to do.

Point of order here, Mr. Welch.

In my Webster's Unabridged, "asinine" is identified as being from the Latin root "asininus," meaning "ass-like," and is defined as "like an ass, regarded as a stupid animal, stupid, silly, unintelligent." If that's what you meant when you used it, I'd say that's pretty "hot language." And I'll bet that, if somebody directed that word at you, you'd consider it "hot language" too.

There's too much of that kind of hyperbole on the internet. It's not necessary to this kind of discussion -- in fact, it's destructive to it -- and it's one of the reasons why posters here are no longer anonymous.

As to the substance, I don't disagree that a proper study of consolidation would be worthwhile. But I do disagree that anybody in law enforcement should have a blank check to dictate whatever they think is necessary to police a community. They should have input but not control. Under our system, the control of both law enforcement and the military is vested in those elected by the people. If we don't like they exercise that control, we can vote against them.

Jon,

As I said asinine is a bona fide adj. and not "hot language" as you assert.

I stand by that adj. as I stand by the Chiefs running the Police Dept. NOT the Mayor.

Again anyone who would decide over the Police Chief's decision that we don't need any police on duty on a friday or saturday night is INANE. If you find that "Hot Language" too Jon maybe you are just a bit too sensitive.

Maybe we should let the Chief of Police be the Chief of Police. No police protection on weekend nights, where will the liability lie when crimes happen. Its a ludicrous way to save money. You don't put the population at danger purposely. That would be STUPID, er ASININE, er INANE JON. Trying to be sensitive to your feelings JON.

Well then, Mr. "P" Welch, since you're not offended by the term, your post fits the Webster's definition perfectly.

It's asinine to debase discussions like this with inflammatory language. And it's asinine not to recognize that you have done so.

And it's asinine to suggest that the Mayor has no choice but to approve every budget request by the Chief of Police. There would be no story here if the Mayor didn't have that power. But you apparently don't get that.

So, Mr. "P" Welch, if you think you can do a better job as Mayor, you should run.

Jon,

There you go again twisting what I said. "to suggest that the Mayor has no choice but to approve every budget request by the Chief of Police" I believe you have a tendency to veer away from what I said. The truth of what I said is right in the post above yours. I believe its a ludicrous way to save money by having "NO POLICE PROTECTION ON WEEKEND NIGHTS" & I most certainly do believe that personal safety matters are more important then budgetary ones. We pay the Police Chief to be the Police Chief in Public Safety matters. If the Mayor decides that we can save money by eliminating patrols on Friday and Saturday nights I don't think it will go over big come election time which will be here before we know it. I know for sure I wouldn't vote for him and I'm a friend of his. We'll hear what his position is tomorrow night. It should prove interesting.